Why New York Rap is Dead
Posted on: January 20, 2008 34 comments so far (is that a lot?)**Disclaimer: This article was inspired by the fact that its 2008 and NY rap hasn’t had any prominence since ‘98. **
It’s no secret New York’s hip hop scene has taken a backseat to them country boys in the South. The sad thing is it has been almost 10 long years that them boys south of the mason dixon have had a grip on the game. 10 long painful years, I might add. How did we get to this point? Isn’t New York the hip hop mecca? Didn’t we invent hip hop? Sure we had Fifty and those G-Unit guys for a minute, but Fifty was pretty much rappen with a twang when he was hot back in ‘03. And as for Jigga, he’s loved so much, because he’s all we got. The purpose of this discussion is to figure out why New York Rap is dead. Check out the 5 reasons NY Rap is dead.
5. Jay-Z
From the 80’s and 90’s there was this idea of succession in NY, in which when you were the “Man” aka “King of NY” everyone for the most part agreed. Even though there were battles, they were fought with nobility and ultimately fostered camaraderie between rappers. At the end of the day, New York rappers supported New York rappers. Jay-Z changed things in the late 90’s-early 2000 by for no apparent reason going off on New York’s hip hop legends specifically Nas and Mobb Deep. Till this day, most believe Mobb hasn’t recovered the damage Hov did to them and most of us cynics regard Nas as a bitch for signing to Jay-Z’s Def Jam.
Jay-Z also didn’t give New York rappers a chance when he was trying to build his “dynasty”. Who were the first cats he put on? Philly niggas. Beanie Sigel, Freeway, Peedi, Young Guns, State Property, hell he was even trying to sign Major Figgas and Gillie. These guys are all okay, but are you telling me there was no one in NY that was as good as these guys? Come on there’s like 30 million in the state, you could have got a dude from Buffalo who was better then any of these guys (I’m not even going to talk about Memphis Bleek here). Point here is Jigga marginalized the fans.
4. 50 Cent
Carrying on from where Hov left off, Fifty went on a rampage breaking down every single New York legend. We all know how Fifty is and his marketing strategies are no longer as effective, but by breaking down everyone from Wu-Tang to Jadakiss to Fat Joe, he made the fans take sides as if it were a war. We all know how lame it is to break others down to build yourself up, but to do this the staple artist of our rap scene only further divided the fans and give New York rap a “crab in the bucket” mentality amongst the up and coming rappers. Case in point, how many rappers had beef during this period? Everyone.
3. The Dirty South
I know saying “we invented hip hop” as an argument for saying “we should run hip hop” is just as futile as Ford saying “we invented the car, so we should make the best cars”. In many ways, the South is much like Japanese automakers in that they support one another at all levels. Toyota doesn’t want to destroy Honda but they both have a common vision to destroy GM, Ford and Chrysler. It is this shared vision of being put on the backburner for so long that has driven Southern rappers and Southern fans to unite in a common cause to take over the rap game. The south has invaded every national outlet from radio to tv to magazines. I guarantee Ozone magazine will be a bigger magazine than XXL in a few years. Contrary to what New York rappers say the South movement is not going to die. It just keeps moving from state to state (one day they got to run out of states though).
Moreover, the South is having a damn good time. It’s considered taboo for Southern rappers to diss each other and when they do they usually just fist fight and make up like brothers -far cry from the ultra gun toting NY rappers of the past. Radio hosts in the South never hate on artists or other radio stations. It’s pretty much all love. In short, southern music is fun and easy to digest and has been further elevated by the increase in interest in club and car culture across the country.
2. Record Labels, Video Channels, Radio, Internet
Simply stated, the media is not supporting the New York scene because it doesn’t generate any interest nation-wide. Since New York radio, isn’t trying to break any artist anymore, but rather just run the same playlists it’s nationally owned corporation tells them too, it doesn’t have an interest to play any independent artists. The indie NY artists are working hard and many of their management teams hit me off with audio and interviews, but the thing is even I ain’t feeling most of them, since the majority of visitors to this site come from all over the US. Would they really care about some indie NY artists who I think sucks?
1. New York Rappers
I don’t know if I’ve just become hard to impress or do NY spitters need to step their rap game up? I have no clue how some of these guys even get mentioned. Dudes like Joel Ortiz? Saigon? Tru Life? J.R. Writer? Jae Hood? Are you kidding me? These guys have maybe one thing going for them. Where is the total package? Right when Big Pun came out, I knew he was a star. Right when DMX came out, I knew he was star. Same with Fifty before he got shot. Even Nore. None of these new guys have that magical “it” quality (If you think you know someone who does, please hit me up). My point is what the hell happened to the breeding ground?
New York rappers inspired each other and the culture thrived producing superstars. Now rappers see Southern rappers get away with certain things and think “Hey I don’t have to think so hard about my lyrics I can just write the first thing that comes to mind and I’ll be successful too”. What this has done is kill New York’s style of rap, I call “witty thug rap”. It’s intelligent, fun and hard. No rapper in NY is doing this style anymore and it has opened up the door for rappers like Lil Wayne who now does a Southern variation of “witty thug rap” to appeal to the East Coast heads.
What do you think?
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34 Responses to “Why New York Rap is Dead”
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January 28th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
An interesting list! although you have forgotten what i think is the major factor here – producers. NY rappers have abandoned to ‘boom bap’ sounds and gone with big time producers such as The Neptunes, Timbo in order to have a hit single. This has therefore resulted in the NY scene suffering from an identity crisis.
Rappers are claiming to be bringing NY back but it’s being forced and people can see through that. It should be a natural return to its roots and the sooner that happens the better!
January 29th, 2008 at 2:30 am
Your exactly right. Man YoRapper got the smartest readers, yall are good. BUT I’m not sure how the producer fits into the equation, I always believed the artist decide which beat is hot, not the producer. In my experience with dealing with producers, they think all of their beats are billboard bound.
January 30th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
Yeah man, agree 100%. Case in point – Jigga and Nas abandoning Primo on their albums :( ! Remember the days when they both had at least one Primo beat on an album ? Tracks like D’evils, NY State of Mind, So Ghetto were what kept these superstar rappers in touch with NY’s sound and now it’s a case of ‘which beatmaker can i go to so i can get a hit single?’ As you rightfully say . . what sounds hot to them is what is Billboard bound! I guess that’s whu im a big fan of Alchemist and Havoc, they’re sticking to what they’ve always done and with that comes respect – if not from anyone else, from me at least :) ! Nice one
January 31st, 2008 at 1:23 pm
ah man I secretly hope every Jigga album he’s going to have one primo beat, and remember Nas was supposed to do an album full of primo beats? I have no idea what these guys are thinking. Primo’s working with all these loser rappers and the good rappers are working with loser produces. Jay better have one primo beat on his real last album -his next one.
March 26th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Check it: I’m a Southerner, but I’m more influenced by New York rapper. I wanted to start rapping when I heard Biggie. I’m from Florida so I like bass/booty music, but I always wished it had the same lyrical prowess as New York rap. I’ve never bought a UGK album (I did buy Bun B’s solo joint) but I’ve bought Nas, Biggie, Jay-Z, and Busta’s albums.
Anyway, Y’all can’t put it on the South, man. For years, I saw how the South got no love in New York, or hip hop in general. I remember being in countless arguments where the South would get no love, except for Outkast and maybe Scarface. Regardless, the South continued to do its thing and made it to the top of the ranks. Now we are able to give the world artists like T.I., Ludacris, Chamillionarie, and Lil Wayne a chance to show that not all Southern hiphop is all chants and no lyrics. Sure, they are no Jay-Z, but who the fuck is? There will never be another KRS-ONE or Big Daddy Kane or Rakim. Just like there will never be another Scarface, Devin the Dude , or Big Mike.
NY cats need to stop looking at the South in envy and/or hate because y’all had the game looked for a good 20-25 years and most of the time y’all was trying to shut other rappers out of the game and y’all went for self. Every now and then y’all would show love (Jay-Z showing love to UGK and Twista…wonder why he’s still on top, eh), but for the most part it was all about NY. Well, karma is a bitch and she’s playing y’all the hoe card.
My advice for NY is to just do you. Get on your grind and stop bitching about Jay-Z not promoting Joe Buddens or whoever. One of the main reasons the South is on top (of a shitpile of the game i know) is because y’all forced us to hustle. Now, NY rappers are forced to do the same. Man up and do what needs to be done. Look at Prodigy, Styles P, and Noyd. Go ahead and drop albums independent and shop them in your hoods. Y’all got 8 million people in the city. You can’t tell me you can’t sell 100 K within a year’s time. Plus, you’ll have more control over your shyt and more money. Get your grind on and stop trying to be superstars and the game will come back to you.
March 27th, 2008 at 1:08 am
Wow a Southerner with a brain? Haha welcome homie. Good comment.
April 7th, 2008 at 9:25 am
I think people are getting stupid. They need stupid southern rappers with simple lyrics they understand. Most southern rap fans can’t even have an intelligent conversation. Southerners… They havn’t evolved much since the 1800’s Huh.
April 8th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
I think that the fact NY is the mecca of hip hop is why there’s so much expectation. But the game, like fashion goes in cycles . . .NY > LA > NY > Midwest > Down South > ???
NY’s problem is that the big labels dont see artists like Papoose and Saigon as big money makers. They’d rather take their chances with a Southern artist that has a song blowing up down there.
Fair play to the down South dudes though
Hip hop is a business now and there’s a new generation of rap fands comin through. young kids dont care` for NY pioneers like Pete Rock, Diamond D and Primo . . . and why should they when they’re too busy perfecting the Soulja Boy dance ?!?
May 12th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
PAPOOSE!
May 31st, 2008 at 12:06 am
I am from NY. And I want to work my way up, believe me. I usually freestyle, but I want to work on a mixtape and see what happens.
December 5th, 2008 at 4:33 am
I fully agree with all ya guys. But there’s one thing u all lack of… FAITH.
If u r really addicted to what u call Hip Hop, RAP or whatever naming it… Please keep your faith in it.
Hip Hop is a culture, but music is just business…
That being said… U either love the culture or the music, anything rather than that, naturally leads straight to controdiction. I guess the medical term is split personality!
P.S. sides have always been taken… that’s just being supportive… relax guys!
FFM, Germany
January 21st, 2009 at 5:03 pm
New York & The East Coast is STILL on top…
The South is actually falling off. They had a good run 2001-2004. But they pretty much crippled Hip Hop.
I find it funny how people always talk about East Coast & West Coast.. when we are the ones that developed it.
March 18th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Like what enigma said “Get your grind on and stop trying to be superstars and the game will come back to you.” He makes a great point. It appears to me that the south is falling off as Geno said. Being from the south it was kinda fun to hear some cool things coming outta the south. For me the best stuff was Outkast and Goodie Mob in the 90’s. But at this juncture I believe a lot of us are tired of the garbage that’s out there now. Great to see heads handling their business and getting paid but I’ ready for the culture of hiphop to shine through rap again from anyone who dare’s to rap regardless of region of the country. It would be great to see NYC rise again as the best lyrical creations were coming from there.
Art in it’s purest and sincerest form in my opinion always comes from an awareness of the pulse of the people and typically comes from struggle and the grind that enigma pointed out. I believe there are some hip hop rappers now connected to that pulse and are creating the kind of lyrical flow along with great beats. It’s only a matter of time before it rises again and hopefully NYC will bring forth what we are waiting to hear, but as someone said earlier it can’t be forced.
March 26th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
does anyone know where i can get a complete list of new new york rappers today? also wondering if there are any torrent sites where i can download new rap music in lossless format. whatcd and waffles really dont care for the genre. it is a true tragedy what is going on in rap music today. i morn with u all
March 30th, 2009 at 11:33 am
Rap and hip hop offer nothing musically but nonsense and protest. Music Publishers are not interested because who in their right mind would do a rap or hi hop cover. Trend music dies when people wake up or turn 20 something and realize that there is nothing new about someone shouting lyrics to a beat even iIF the rap is done well and has meaning. The faster this trend dies the better for musicians and public. It’s doubtful you’ll ever hear old rap or hip hop music in the future
April 8th, 2009 at 9:06 am
There’s enough money and room for everyone in the usa. I’m from ny and been living in the south for the past few years, and I really don’t listen to the radio because most of the music suck. But at the same time, I do have my favorite rapppers, but they all have that ny style of rap. Everybody needs to stop crying about which state is the best and just do them.
April 22nd, 2009 at 11:55 pm
yo fuck the south. how you gonna say its dead when we got people like charles hamilton, french montana, jadakiss, and maddd other people puttin out hits. wtf, i cant believe you just referenced ludacris and chamillionaire as an addition to the game. thats a joke theyre trash. yeah its nice maybe when youre twisted in a club but if you think thats rap you need to go back and figure out how the fuck hip hop was born before you start ranting it was dead ya dig? ny all day
May 5th, 2009 at 12:27 am
New york rap always sucked 2 me. Growin’ up down south I always liked west coast cause New York rap is wack. All artists from east coast suck really. Will Smith, Puff fag daddy, even Biggie sounds like his fat ass was chockin’ on a dick!
May 5th, 2009 at 12:30 am
South kills New York. And hey, stop talkin like yall are so hard. Come to Birmingham or Memphis and talk that shit!
May 24th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Music Critic, interesting comment and more opinion than fact. Fact: Rap has long been the most commercially successful genre of music to date, 10%-13% of market share compared to other genres. Fact: Rap was born in the Bronx from economic and social struggle and translates to many in this country as well as around the world. Your “critique” shows you not only don’t understand rap’s mass appeal but aslo you are wrong. If you don’t like it, fair enough but take your peusdo-intellectual shit back to the ‘burbs or upper-middle class urban dwelling.
For the others in the pissing contest, East Coast, West Coast, south…it wouldn’t matter if the NY scene died tomorrow, it won’t, since New York is and will always be the original birthplace or rap, forever in history, period.
May 27th, 2009 at 10:14 am
new york hip hop def aint dead
actually southern hip hop is dead
theres no new artists coming out but theres so many east rappers
May 27th, 2009 at 10:18 am
south sucks nobody wants to hear stupid lyrics with no substance
and the beats are trash and techno
June 8th, 2009 at 6:02 am
Here are some reasons why the south is getting over in the rap game:
1) Southern rappers know how to network together
2) Southern rappers dont beef as much as NY rappers
3) They dont rap about guns and murder as much as NY rappers. So they get more radio air play, make more money on ring tones and get more track plays in the club
4) Most mainstream rappers down south are very commercial and materialistic so they generate more business for jewelry, clothing, shoe, and car companys.
5) Southern record lables give more down south rappers a chance to shine than NY labels do for their artists.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:41 am
New York Rap is Back,,,,
Email: Rasnig2@yahoo.com
Im Ready!
July 9th, 2009 at 10:51 am
Southern Rap is running the game because down south they still have their middle class supporting them in the indi game. What people don’t know indi rap down south sells real good. And they have that going for them. Also the economy in the south lower cost of living and more blacks are moving south plus more blacks are going to college down south more opportunity. And the black college students buy a lot of the indi artist music. I’m not going to say all down south rap is good but it is some talent down south especially in jacksonville florida which I think is going to be the next rap powerhouse from the south. Blakhart, Al Pete, Swordz, The Ab’s, Flyi Dcg, Dead w8 Click, Dukwon, Dr. Sam Beckett to name a few. Plus they have this dope producer name Mgeezy who is signed to T pain’s label. And I forgot this crew called Duval Boyz which consist of Fatso and Cassius Clay and Clay make some banging beats and they have this producer Notsucal who is dope.
July 22nd, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Don’t you guys ever Listen to Lyrics!!!! I mean Real LYRICS!!! – WU Tang Clan has been trying to explain this for years – HIP IS Onwned by the Illuminati now- Inspecter Deck – Killah Priest, Ghost & especially RZA – do u guys even know what Hip Hop is? really What your hearing from the South is NOT Hip HOP – its good Music but NOT HIP HOP!!! In Europe we always appreciated the Real from NYC – this is why groups like WU and Gangatarr! tour & sell in London, France Japan South Africa, Austraili & West Indies to this day 2009!! – How come we understand the difference – you Guys allow the Media to force feed you Crap!! and you eat it – example, Lil Wayne is OVERATED pushed by a machine owned by corparate america to pimp niggas!!- next thing u know hes the best – I know dudes on Flatbush Ave, Utica & Nostrand Brooklyn that can Lyrically destroy Lil Wayne with the whole package also – Even BBC Radio One Tim Westwood is all caught -up – Dont let what happened to Reggie Dance Hall Yard Music – happen to Hip Hop!! – Its Sad!!!
July 22nd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
In response to Joe Budden – I agree in regards to Method Man MCing in 2009
But Joe this is My List – I need 2 weeks to make any adjustments with Ranking MCs
This is not the final List – Ranking – the greatest are highlighted
1 Big L
2 Eminem
3 Grand Puba
4 Ghostface
5 Pharaoh Munch (underrated)
6 Nas
7 Inspector deck
8 Biggie Smalls
9 Super Natural
10 Red Man
11 Lauran Hill
12 Slick Rick
13 KRS1
14 Q-Tip
15 Master Ace
16 LL Cool J
17 Canibus
18 Keith Murray
19 Lord Vanese
20 Rakim
21 Jay Z
22 Buckshot (beedie eye)
23 Jada Kiss
24 Joe Budden
25 Royce da 5’9
26 D Nice
27 Bigg Daddy Kane
28 Guru
29 Diamond D
30 Method
31 Roxane Shante
32 Tretch
33 DMX
34 Obie Trice
35 Andre 3000
38 Ludicrous
39 CL smooth
40 Black (Roots) thought
July 23rd, 2009 at 2:13 pm
ay listen up.im bout to kick it to all yall i am a young black man from san diego. im only thirteen years old. but as i wuz growing up at ages 10 11 12 i loved the new york hip hop style of culture because they teach me about life such as rappers like gza his song cold world really told me about life in the streets how and trying to make it succesful. rather than another boy my age listening to songs about a girl shaking her booty songs like lil wayne pussy monster why r u lettting the youth here all that stuff about a girls private part its not cool ata all. like lil jon shake that monkey all that profanity about a girls booty is not appropiate for youth like me. i study lyrics from new songs like lil wayne pussy monster and genius cold world all i hear from lil wayne is pussy this pussy that im guna fuck this girl real hard like thats not even cool. so i look at genius cold world hes talking about the struggle and cold hard nights in the streets of the ghettos.im guna ask all yall a question. would you rather have your son listen to lil wayne or lil boosie talk about a girl shaking her ass and doing her. or would you rather have him listen to songs from artists like krs one smif n wessun wu tang clan epmd busta rhymes lord tariq and peter gunz nas biggie mobb deep 50 cent for a while fat joe big pun pete rock and cl smooth etc. who actually talk about real things that go on in life and how to be a man hot to survive how to make it in this world. but no u guys in the south would rather want ur son singing at the dinner table yeah that gurl shakin her booty drop it low to the floor. nooo not cool at all. there is a reason why they call krs one the teacher its because hes is teaching u about life. not about a girls booty or breasts or vagina.it is promtoting young men like me to marry a girl just for her booty and leave her while she is pregnant. no wonder our black communities have suffered an increase in rape and teenage pregnancy. thats why i dont listen to that nonsense. i probabaly no more than sum 22 year old man in new orleans about the real culture of hip hop and why it wuz created.and all u guys think tupac is from oakland and los angeles and baltimore and philly welllll no! he was originally born in east harlem NEW YORK! no wonder why the lyrical flow of tupac is so amazing. and guys in the south no disrespect but i have an idea. your beats dont have to be like new yorks. but can u guys at least please rap about sumthing positive and teach our youth today such as me to do the right things oin life and not how to slap a gurls booty. it makes me sick and i wanna cry when i hear people at my school talk about yeah u hear thats song by lil jon yeah slap her booty take her home for a one night stand like really seriously. so i can take a rapper from like an example bed stuy in brooklyn that is poor no money no father mom a drug addict.that can rap like krs one with a lyrical flow like tupac that can freestyle and teach the youth something positive. and can battle the o so famous rapper lil wayne and televise that crap and i bet he could detroy him in a battle.im just saying all u guys rappers in florida loisiana tenneseee georgia carolina texas etc. please change ur lyrics to something positive for me to here. please. im tired of looking up ol skool songs to listen to that have meanings because im running out. and u rappers in the south that r about to get signe d to dtp or whoever think about wat u r going to rap about please rap about sumting educational and positive please please i just want the lyrics to be positive and no more dirty south ryder music cadillac spinnin rims grill stuff because that seems like the only thing u know iz that. remember this is cuming from a thirteen year old. i love to rap but i rap about positive things i freestyle wit my older cousin he likes ol skool rap to. iwant to be either a rapper or a basketball player. but the damage that the south is doing to ol skool rap especially new york rap. i want to become a rapper fast evemn right now i cud really teach the youth like me about life more than a gorwn man like lil wayne in louisiana can. and thats sad that i know more about rap than a grown man especially a rapper like lil wayne does. im going to take a trip to new york and fine sum of my cusins in harlem and brooklyn because they like to rap and freestyle were guna try to get signed in new york cuz we wont get signed down south. and we r going to rebuild hip hop culture and make it the way it used to b so we can influence other rappers from new york to cum out and do sumthing so we can just try to save the culture of hip hop.
July 27th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
yo…Ima just say in response to jdawg…All them otha cats have rapped about women too. Just sayin…it happens in hip-hop. You from out West…I know you have heard some Too Short songs.Im no Lil Wayne dick rider either. Anyway, Im from the South and I agree that I miss the NY rap scene. But, im not gonna trash the South for gettin money and makin moves much in the same way that NY cats were doin in the 90s. I wish that everyone could co-exist in today’s hip-hop, though it seems that no one wants that. It has to be East Coast runnin this, or the South, forget that the West Coast even exists or the Mid-West for that matter. I can appreciate lyricism, and substance in hip-hop, I bang wit Lupe Fiasco (sooooo criminally under-rated), Common, The Roots,Outkast, Jay-Z, Nas, Joe Budden, and cats lik that. South, East Coast, West Coast….everyone unite to help the shitty state of hip-hop.
July 31st, 2009 at 9:08 am
The worst thing that happened to hip hop was when corporate america got into it. When Corporations get into anything they kill the vibe. They did it in sports and now they are doing it in rap. Whatever sells they will milk it. The south is losing their mainstream base now. So now they are getting into the soft auto tune kayne kid cudi sound now. Not the dope kayne but 808 and heartbreak one. So watch how coporate america put money into that.
August 20th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
fuk new york rap boringgggg played out yo son ya b yo son big words yankee northern proper accent played out son word son my dude whats up b dam ny lame az fuk nypd be urking dem niggas dey dont do shytpussies
October 24th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
First off all can I just say that i believe Karma bit the north in the ass with not showing us love. And consequently they’re not getting recognized. Second of all every rapper from the A, the south for that matter don’t just make songs about swag and crunk shit. It’s whatever the audience wants and what they support. Trust me as a rapper who’s main influence are OutKast and have den just all dat other shit on my mind. There’s alot of artist all over the south with valuable lyrics as well as stories in their rhymes. And new york I gotta agree the new artist really mostly sound the same. The west has the most potential for a comeback out of all the other areas of the Hip Hop genre, but I also agree that the south really has nothing but love for each other and the beefs/feuds all usually get squashed if it doesn’t have any real issues such as Gucci and Jeezy(but that’s another story). So long story short, we have lyrics and substance its just that we in underground…..seriously
November 2nd, 2009 at 3:03 pm
NY rap ain’t dead its just that alchoholic club music is alive.Corprate America is a business,simple and fucking plain.Artist don’t run shit CEOs who want money do!Fuck looking for a good artist when its easy money and safer to find a club hit!Southern rappers have more harmony in their music even if they don’t say shit,so its easier to push in the club.Just give it up cause ain’t shit gonna change,its business!!!
November 14th, 2009 at 11:46 pm
NY RAP IS DEAD AND IM GLAD THEY ARE BORING RAKIM WAS THE BEST NY RAPPER THE REST ARE WANNABES TUPAC KILED NY AND NY NIGGAS SOUND WHITE FUCK THEM